From:Jerry Gorton
Sent:Wednesday, Sep 28, 2016 at 3:58 PM,
To: Jeff Gorton
Cc: iStar-Tariray; Andrew Ramos
Hello everyone, my name is Jerry and I am Jeff's dad. Andy knows me, but Star, I have not met you. I thought I would drop a line introducing myself to this on line fellowship Jeff thought I may want to participate in. It seems right, but I do not want to intrude in any way if you are not comfortable adding me. Feel free to let me know if that is the case. My e-mail address is jojer773@aol.com
I took the liberty of reading the past questions and answers that Jeff forwarded to me but I believe I will reserve any comments for future Q&A's. In a general way I do want to make a couple of observations regarding what I have read so far.
It is important that we understand church is not where we go but who we are. The church is made up of born again believers world wide. Unfortunately many identify with denominations rather than Jesus, and I believe that is a mistake even though there are many true believer in the denominations.. In John 15 verse 1 we read, "I am the true vine, My Father is the vine-dresser. The implication here is there must be a false vine. The true church has a common bond that is greater than any individual differences. That common bond is Jesus Christ and the Holy Spirit, not a denomination or a doctrine, or a statement of faith, but Him. Our hope, and peace, and strength is derived from being connected to the true vine. This is done through faith which produces a love for one another.
It is key for believers to understand the difference between explain and reveal. Paul speaking to the church at Corinth regarding the things of God makes the following statement in `1st Cor. 2:10, "God has revealed them to us through His Spirit. For the Spirit searches all things, yes, the deep things of God." When we read the New Testament we will be hard pressed to find the word "explained". God does not explain, but reveals Himself and His word. Then in chapter 2 of 1st Cor. Paul makes the following statement in verse 14, "But the natural man does not receive the things of God; for they are foolishness to him; nor can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned." If we expect God to speak to us through our natural understanding and human logic we will become easily frustrated. John 16:13 records Jesus saying to the disciples, "However, when the Spirit of Truth has come, He will guide you into all truth, for He will not speak on His own authority, but whatever He hears, He will speak; and He will tell you things to come."
These are a couple of things I believe that are generally not understood by many who say they are believers. God delights in revealing Himself to those with a humble and contrite heart, however this is not an academic experience.
Blessings to you all
Jerry
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From: Andrew Ramos
Sent: Wednesday, September 28, 2016 1:35 AM
To: Jerry Gorton
Cc: iStar-Tariray; Jeff Gorton
Subject: Re: (no subject)
Hi Jerry,
You are always welcome and not in away way intruding in this online fellowship. It had cross my mind when this started how awesome it would be to have you in it so I am grateful that Jeff (I have to call him that now to differentiate who's who since they are both "Mr. Gorton") took the liberty to add you.
Andy
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From: iStar-Tariray
Sent: Wednesday, September 28, 2016 2:01 AM
To: 'Andrew Ramos'; 'Gorton, Jeffrey'
Subject: RE: Intro...Fellowship
Dear Mr. Gorton and Manong,
Magandang Araw to Everyone!
Your message are well received and appreciated. I praised and thank God that it is easily been understood and perceived😊, as I have mentioned to Manong on my text message this morning before heading to Makati. Why is that when Mr Gorton explain it in plain simple words it is so easy to understand, when if Manong explained it to me with too many words it became so hard to understand?
Thank you for explaining and giving more understanding of what a Church is, I can now answer it without hesitation that I am a Christian and that a church is not any denomination but a body of believers in Christ. I agree with you about the institutions/organizations demands credentialing process to obtain title and without undergoing in that credentialing process one cannot be called "evangelist," "pastor" or "teacher" which is set by man and not from the Lord. It got me into thinking that even way back in Jesus time this has been practice already by the teachers of the law. I thank you for answering my 2nd question Sir and I will not make it as an excuse not to attend church, as what the bible says do not forsake fellowshipping ( I understand now in any form weather it is via email, text messages, phone calls and gathering of believers).
And about tithing, I know that this is the most debated issue inside and outside the church. On my previous fellowship with Manong he mentioned that it was not even mentioned in the New Testament, except where it is describing Old Testament practices, or in the Gospels where Jesus is addressing people who were under the Old Testament law. As I go on and read your email and went back on our conversation days ago it helped me realized that New Testament teaching on giving is between me and the Lord, as He always takes into account our circumstances. The important thing is that I or we should see giving as a privileged and not a burden. It should not be out of sense of duty(which I previously do), but rather out of love for the Lord. Let me quote here 2Corinthians 9:6-7 says: “Remember this: Whoever sows sparingly will also reap sparingly, and whoever sows generously will also reap generously. Each man should give what he has decided in his heart to give, not reluctantly or under compulsion, for God loves a cheerful giver.”
Another thing I learned is that, please correct me if I am wrong in this-
That tithing is not the New Testament standard for giving, it is more than any factor, giving reflects the condition of one’s heart. The Bible teaches that God, who richly has supplied us with all good things, wants us “to be generous and ready to share” (1 Tim. 6:18). Tithing is not mentioned as any instructions to the church, although much is said about giving. Before we came into conversation about tithing it gives an impression to me and to other Christians around me most especially my mom that Tithing is an obligation to GOD as it is given as a law in Old Testament that is why I advised Manong I cannot understand him as he was not able to explained to me fully how tithing should be perceived(My apologies about that Manong). While in New Testament GIVING has been given an emphasize on my willingness, whole heartedly response to God’s grace. Am I correct on this Sir, as this is now I understand how tithing should be understood. My take about tithing before prior on this is that I have to paid/give my due and nothing more is required- it gives me the impression of following without my heart on it and that if I failed to do so I’ll go to hell and it put me into a guilty situation with God, rather than seeing a love relationship between me and the Lord. I now learned that I should give generously as GOD has prospered me, out of love for HIM. I should not think “How much do I have to give?” rather “How much I can give?” That I should not wait for someone to pressure me with a need, I should look into a need that I can meet.
I thank you Sirs for your patience in answering my questions, indeed this is the day that the Lord has made to opened something in me. Most especially the tithing- it became burden to me of long ago. That I felt so down whenever I was not able to give what has been required of me that left me feel so guilty and it also made me irritated to Christians who do not tithe. I always asked the Lord in prayer that it has been said as well that I cannot give what I don’t have yet here I am trying to fulfill the 10% percent as what has been stated. I failed to give generously to others as I took it their debt to me that they need to pay me back on what I have lend them because I need to give back the full amount of 10% as well. I didn’t realize a brother in need, I didn’t see that those money that I have lent these people should be a blessing and not a debt to be paid. I didn’t know giving until now… since nobody helps me to understand and nobody in here see tithing in the manner that you view it and I do now….
Again Sirs, thank you so much! I felt so much joy in me right now. You guys are a blessings to me…
Cheers!
Star
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